Ariel #24

[ebb]

When you start grinding, if it smells sweet, it's polyester. Don't think epoxy would have broken like that (like what is swelling?), nor gotten so bulbous looking. If it is epoxy, it'll be very interesting to see what it is hiding.

338's Factory shoe was very corroded on one side - mostly because the DFO's rudder post was made with highly alloyed s.s. propshaft - that's what I think anyway. Really hard and showed zero corrosion.

Rudder shoe should be made of nearly inert silicon bronze, along with the rudder post. But it's possible other copper alloys were used.

[Tim Mertinooke]

I am pretty sure it has not been previously repaired. The PO has owned the boat since 1974 and he was the second owner. WHen asked he told me that he hadn't tried to repair it so it is probably the original laminate.

I have seen the diagrams and have heard of the ills that come with the infamous voids. Is it possible to have water make its way in between the lead and the laminate from the voids, or is the lead pretty well sealed from the voids found fore and aft of it? My grinding finger is twitching...can't wait until she gets home.

[ebb]

Sorry!
Somehow a correction became a double post....

[ebb]

Don't have to take it from me, but it seems that lead ballast casting was lowered into the space designed for it in an Ariel with plenty of scrap cushioning and shimming using whatever lying around on the shop floor (as one one guy put it.) That wood (and maybe also wads of glass roving) has disintergrated over time - and space does exist around the ballast. ebb has gone on adnauseum about this and the Search mode will probably find that AND what others have contributed.

The ballast is secured, ie 'encapsulated', across the top of the lead - under the cabin sole - with multi layers of glass matt and polyester over it that crosses the space and tabs onto the hull both sides. This 'encapsulated' volume may or may not be isolated from the sump under the steps. But it more than likely has or has had gallons of water in it. If the hull is in relative good shape, the liquid in the encapsulated ballast area COULD have come thru the hull over the centuries, but it's more likely imco to have migrated there from the bilge area.

The search mode will find discussions on a number of configurations that evidently were used by the Factory for the space under the cockpit. Some like 338's were empty, others filled or sculpted in different ways.

It's pretty certain that water will find its way to the lowest point in the bilge and even into the laminate. It's merely a matter of drilling holes and letting the hull dry out. This also has been discussed on the forum and Search should find it.

It's my opinion that the Factory would NOT have delivered a new Ariel or Commander with the shoe covered in fiberglass. The rudder, also, is a traditional bronze and mahogany structure with not a stitch of glass or a smear of glue on it or around the post. LOTS on the rudder in discussion here. The original rudder is a holdover from wooden boat building practices, and is an exceptional work of craftmanship.

What we see in your fotos - on the face of it - at the end of the keel - doesn't look too professional. imco
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A clew as to what may have happened to your Ariel's shoe may be similar to the experience with 338's. When it was removed, a bunch of crystalized stuff was discovered. Very strange. Much of it came off with the fitting. Stuck inside the shoe! But there seemed to be evidence that the fitting had been a problem because other bolts had been drilled thru it! NOT a good idea.

After examination it appeared that the very end of the keel over which the shoe is fitted did not have its glass layup pushed down far enough into the corner of the mold. The 'crystal' stuff was unreinforced polyester that had broken from the mother.

The bronze shoe was being held onto the hull with literally ONE stud thru actual frp. The one bolt furthest in. The others had penetrated only plastic. These thru bolts actually created the cracking, I believe, from the weight of the rudder pushing down on the shoe. It's amazing the shoe had stayed on there for 40 years! I put four studs thru the fitting when the new one was attached, believe the original had four also. Actually the bolts are peened rod.

Your Ariel may have a similar situation and the cracked muff in your foto may be a DFO's attempt at reinforcement without taking the thing apart.

[Tim Mertinooke]

Last Saturday was supposed to be the delivery day for A-24, but mother nature dumped a couple feet of snow on us. It looks like delivery will most likely be next weekend. My neighbors thought me a little weird when I spent all of yesterday afternoon shoveling my yard. Here are some photos of my last visit to her.

Nameplate of course. That will stay original without any touchups. Maybe just a careful cleanup of the PO's slop of white paint.



One of the things I can't wait to do is rip off that terrible box made to hold the depth sounder display. The good news is that it is held on with only four screws and no 5200!




The finish on the mahogany is in pathetic condition, but the boat has been covered during it's layup and all the mahogany appears to lack rot. I won't know if it just looks bad or if I will need to mill up new coamings until they are removed.









The interior looks like all the others that I have seen. This one however has no water stains through any of the deck hardware including the ports and chainplates. I took this as a good sign and I plan to rebed everything before she hits the water this summer.

Those who cannot see the beauty of a run-down sailboat in need of love that will require time, money, and epoxy in one's hair will never understand this grin on my face...ready about?

[Tim Mertinooke]

Here are some photos of a couple mysteries I found on A-24. If anyone has any info regarding the "foam " that appears to be literally busting out of things I would appreciate it. Enlightenment please.





I didn't check the date on the newspaper, but I will once I see the boat again this week. If it says "1962" then some of my questions will be answered.

[joe]

Hi Tim,
I wonder if someone was trying to stop a leak?? I wish you the very best of luck and many congratulations on your purchase!!
Joe
S/V Sirocco

[commanderpete]

"There is NOTHING--absolute nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing about in boats."

or something like that

[mbd]

Is that last pic looking aft under the cockpit? Where's your bilge??

Looking forward to seeing #24 come back to life. Keep the faith!

[c_amos]

It looks like the foam was mixed and dumped into the bilge to fill the void....

I wonder if that has anything to do with the bulge?

Keep the faith man, it will be spring someday, and you will be on the water and it will be worth the effort...

[mbd]

Tim, RE: the foam, check out Bill's response #5 in the keel voids thread...

[Tim Mertinooke]

Is that last pic looking aft under the cockpit?

Yes, it was taken near the sole looking aft toward the rudder tube. The foam that expanded out of the tube appears to be the "Great Stuff" you can buy at the hardware store. Great choice; open-celled, non-waterproof...thank you PO! I plan to remove it and assess from there. If there is an issue with the tube leaking at all, it will be corrected via proven methods not foam and a prayer as someone apparently did before I.

Where's your bilge??

I was hoping you guys could answer that. It appears as though the deepest part of the bilge was filled. This should make my bilge pump plans more interesting. You guys are going to get a kick out of this once I get started and snap tons of photos of the process.

Looking forward to seeing #24 come back to life. Keep the faith!

Me too! Faith will not be lost. I have waited a long time to restore a boat like this ariel. She will be re-commisioned this summer and will be used extensively after these minor hic-cups are addressed. My CD Typhoon on the other hand came to me in near perfect shape leaving little to do to her. It got to the point where I was making up projects just to work on her. I replaced the static ports with opening ones, added extra cleats, varnished an outragous number of coats on the teak, etc. Finally I have a floating vixen who needs my love. I have a feeling this relationship will not be one-sided like the Ty's.

[Tim Mertinooke]

In the Ariel the heel was molded as part of the hull and foam was subsequently poured into the back of the hull to fill this deep narrow area. It was then glassed over to prevent water from getting at the foam and to allow for easier cleaning. If you think there is water down in the back of the keel, I would drill a hole at the bottom below the foamed area, drain it, reseal it, and then
redo the glass job on the interior over the foam.

Mike,
This is hull #24, maybe the whole glassing over the foam idea wasn't part of the process yet. Drilling is certainly in my future with the possibility of a garboard type plug to drain at haulout each year. The plug I think is a prudent idea seeing how the temps around here can get pretty low.