+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Just for comparison - Ariel / Commander

  1. #1
    kyle williams Guest

    Just for comparison - Ariel / Commander

    I seem to be collecting lots of images of Commanders as I search for - but ultimately am putting off till next fall - my new-to-me Commander. I run the collection in slideshow mode on my computer. Refreshing to watch!

    This one was helpful to me comparing the lines of these two lovely ladies!

    Kyle

    p.s. if anyone has a clearer image of Commander's sailplan, I can edit this image.
    Attached Images  

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    609
    Neat, Kyle! Good idea...

    But don't you know the old salts' saying that goes:

    "Never put off a boat puchase 'til tomorrow, if you can go ahead and get it today..."?

    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  3. #3
    kyle williams Guest
    Even old salt Ben Franklin might agree that two boats are more than any social worker needs. Let's unload this scow, eh? KW needs burlier as well as classier transport on Lake Michigan.
    Attached Images  

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Winyah Bay, SC
    Posts
    609
    Kyle - You should post that one over at the Trailer Sailor classifieds - lots of folks there might want that boat. She looks fast and fun! I tried selling it for you in their chat room tonight.
    Kurt - Ariel #422 Katie Marie
    --------------------------------------------------
    sailFar.net
    Small boats, long distances...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    McHenry, IL, but sail out of Racine WI
    Posts
    626
    That looks like an MC. You are largely right about two boats being one more than is needed. I launched my MC this summer for the first time in several years, and only once got out to sail it. Was always on the Ariel. But then, for pre season and post season sailing, the scow is sort of fun - but not necessarily easy.

  6. #6
    kyle williams Guest

    Talking

    True. The MC isn't a relaxing boat. It is a very active, crouching, hiking and holding your tounge right to make the most of the wind. I can't find the impressive picture of the guy water skiing behind it, but the boat can plane and so it can flat scream across the water. The MC (http://www.melges.com/mcscows.html) has a huge following and a very active, nationally recognized fleet here on Spring Lake (http://www.springlakeyachtclub.org ) A great boat for someone who enjoys lots of tweaking for maximum performance and specifically enjoys racing. I personally find that a little tedious... except the screaming across the lake part. I came into the boat for free, so "better than a sharp stick in the eye" applies. For getting out on the water - no complaints, but it just isn't really my cup of tea. Nice thing is that it holds its value and resale is no problemo. Look for it to go away this spring and a Commander getting my name on it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    McHenry, IL, but sail out of Racine WI
    Posts
    626
    I am not in concurrence with your comments about the MC. I go out in it when there is steady ,very light wind - wind that too light for the Ariel. It is also great for pre and post season sailing (April, May and November). As for the heavy wind stuff, I used to enjoy it, but now that I know no one would come out to give me a hand should I dump, I've given up that thrill.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    14
    Probably none of my buisiness, but I was just wondering if you had a particular Commander in mind, and why you would wait until fall of '06 to buy it. I keep my Ariel on White Lake, just a few miles north of you. Hope to see you out there.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
    Posts
    1,823
    You can compare the Ariel to the Commander using this calculator

    http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

    The Commander is clearly the better boat.

    Numbers don't lie :-)
    Last edited by commanderpete; 01-19-2007 at 02:17 PM. Reason: Had to add a smiley face

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    numb ers

    C L E A R L Y better!

    Your Commander is longer by a foot
    has a longer waterline, wider beam
    and heavier displacement by 400lbs.

    Not only that but you have more sail
    area, a better capsize ratio and better
    points on motion comfort.

    Dunno what the pounds to inch ratio is
    But you got us Ariels by 12 whatjermacallits.
    Awesome!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by commanderpete View Post
    You can compare the Ariel to the Commander using this calculator

    http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

    The Commander is clearly the better boat.

    Numbers don't lie :-)
    Better, I guess if one wants all cockpit
    I prefer the, dare I say, "Expansive" cabin of my lovely Ariel

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    118
    There's a mistake here somewhere?
    I thought the hull of the Commander and Ariel are exactly identical? That they were made form the identical mould? Has somebody entered the wrong values into the database for either boat?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    better boat

    well...
    another boat must have been entered into Carl's Calculator (post #11) for the Commander.
    Head to head, Commander would be the faster boat, doncherthink?
    Lighter, more sail, less windage...
    {Later note: Was reminded this last Sunday, 1/21/07, that officially Commander is but 20# lighter than Ariel - and that sail area, 311ft2 is exactly the same. Years ago A/C's raced in the same fleet here on the Bay with the same PHRF, and Commanders were thought to have the edge. After some discussion about which was faster around the bouys, all agreed that it was the skipper rather than the boat that got the trophy.}

    Pounds to inch 'ratio':
    Don't know how you'd use this to compare boats.
    It's how many pouinds to sink a boat one inch.

    Everything else being equal except displacement, how many pounds would it take to sink a Commander one inch compared to an Ariel?


    In this regard, does anybody know how much extra weight it does take to sink either one of our A/C's one inch? Be good to know!!!!
    Last edited by ebb; 01-22-2007 at 06:02 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    San Rafael, CA
    Posts
    3,621

    Ariel vs Commander displacement

    Twenty pounds official weight difference between the boats is hard to understand as there is obviously much more weight in the trunk cabin and furniture in the Ariel.

    The obvious difference between the two boats is that officially there is 200 more pounds of ballast in the Commander.

    Obviously the Ariel 'top' weight was designed into the Commander bottom.

    I don't know if that 200# is in the cast ballast keel, or elsewhere. There is therefore more weight above the waterline in the Ariel.
    In the 25kts we had on the Oakland Estuary last Sunday my money would be on Commander, because they could stand up better to the wind.

    Wouldn't you think the boat in these conditions would give a consistant edge to ANY skipper?
    Last edited by ebb; 01-22-2007 at 06:25 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Asst. Vice Commodore, NorthEast Fleet, Commander Division (Ret.) Brightwaters, N.Y.
    Posts
    1,823
    I think the figures for displacement and ballast are something of a mystery. Is displacement empty weight or half stores? Outboard vs. inboard model? Lead pigs or none?

    I think most Travelifts have a scale on them. Have to remember to ask the guy.

    There is a definite difference between the owners. Commander owners tend to be more tanned and fit, from enjoying the fresh air, but walk stooped over.

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts