Deck Delamination / Core Problems

[Mike Goodwin]

Ebb,
I get my foam cores from the same place I was buying surfboard foam back in the 60's.
I comes in 2x4 , 4x4, 4x8 etc, sheets and in thicknesses from 1/4" to 2" and possibly thicker.
I like one called Wes-Core , looks like a slice of honeycomb , some is yellow and some green, works easy , bonds to epoxy or poly resin .
I don't like thickening epoxy with cabosil as a general thickener it is too hard and brittle , milled cotton fiber is good along with a dash of "Barney Dust" .
Fine hardwood sawdust (wood flour) from the bandsaw is far superior to cabosil
Even better is a pre-thickened epoxy out of Fla. and it is much cheaper than WEST, EAST or SYS-3 . 1:1 very forgiving mix, choice of fast medium or slow hardeners.

ElBee, Ply is probably the worst core material choice I have ever seen or repaired . Boats with ply core decks are generally valued lower in surveys than a balsa core boat.
Water travels through ply from one end to the other with ease . When you paint the ply with epoxy thinned or not , it wont penetrate past the glue lines if it gets that far. In other words it can still rot, seen a lot of it too!
Good ply will cost almost as much as good core and be harder to install .
You would be better off using balsa core , a lot faster , cleaner and cheaper. Use end grain Mahogany blocks where hardware will be mounted .
Use a non-blushing epoxy , because it will take many sessions to do the job.
Acetone is not epoxy thinner BTW.

BTW,
In the last year I mixed up over $20,000 worth of epoxy on one project .

[ebb]

Lots and lots of good stuff here.
Stuff was talking about is solid uncut pvc foam, when you say 'divinycel foam' in the shop they'll take you to grey or green vinyl foam. Solid small cells, fairly stiff in sheet, but light and NOT brittle. Well, you can break it if you want. There's not er and satisfying with the right stuff.

I wouldn't use the cut stuff because I'm superstitious, all those mostly unfilled cuts in the new waterproof deck. Haven't done it, but I suspect that easily handled smaller/longer pieces would be a way to go. There isn't much camber but you'd still have to force a wide piece into place, while 'planks' would go in easier and fast ('course you have to prefit) Am I correct?

[Bill]

I'll also need to do something about the huge outboard cutout.

Cutout is factory and came with a teak or mahogany hatch cover. The ob throttle is not its reason. That is usually used in the vertical position. The opening is for accessing the engine mounting screws and (unless you have a Nissan verticle pull) for pulling the starting rope. It also is an added source of ventilation - a big problem when running the engine.

[Mike Goodwin]

120' schooner in Norfolk , Va. , just commissioned last week and is now somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay sailing.

[Mike Goodwin]

ElBee,

The cracks around the turnbuckle base are cosmetic , just gelcoat, spyder cracks .

Looks like someone shortened the spreaders to me.

Squirt the turnbuckle with PB- Blaster , it will turn after a few minutes and 2 or 3 applications od Blaster .

Clean the interior of the boat with a white vinegar wipedown or spray it on, wont hurt anything but the mold. Next scrub with 'citrus orange' handcleaner the industrial stuff and wipe with fresh water , use no bleach, it's toxic to people and mold will grow back if it isn't neutralized with an acid, like vinegar, which also kills the mold on it's own.
When I got #45 it was so black inside (from mold) , it looked like it had been on fire.

[commanderpete]

A budget????

Hahahahahahahahahaha

You could try to make one (then double it)

Sure, the cost is painful. But, its the time that gets 'ya. Sooooo many hours.

Meanwhile everything and everybody is competing for those same hours.

Excruciating.

Any boat you look at is going to have problems. But is another boat gonna make your heart flutter?

Only a good sea boat is worth the investment, in my humble and cranky opinion.

[Tim61N]

Pete hit it right on the head, I tried to estimate my renovation costs and itemized everything out pretty well came up with about $5000. I've pretty much hit that mark and I'm only half way to where I wanted to be!!
It would be nice not to have to worry about the money and just do it, but if we all had that sentiment W.M. would be a few mil richer!!(and I would be holding a cardboard sign on the corner)
B.T.W. Looks like you need to figure in buying a cat to catch the giant rats!

[Sprite]

Corecell is the way to go. I started cutting up my deck and I wouldn't
touch endgrain balsa in sheets ever after this one. There is a place in Upstate New York called Noah's they are also in Canada and they have an over abundance of it and they are having a major clearance sale. You need 3/8 and they come in 4x8 sheets runs roughly $500.00 but I think you can get it from them on the cheap because they overstocked it.


John I think it is Noah's.com but try Noah's marine supplies on google.

[ElBeethoven]

Noah's is indeed cheaper than anyone else I've found. I was going to go with Nidacore, but I see that I can get 3/8" Core-cell for $94/sheet from them which makes for less than $300 for a whole new deck core. Thanks again!

Tangentially, has anyone had an NEGATIVE experiences with Raka epoxy? The six-gallon kit with slow hardener is more than $100 cheaper than the West 4.89 (or whatever) gallon kit.

Fair winds,

Jeremy

[commanderpete]

Used a couple of gallons at one time, no problem. Haven't heard anything bad about them.

I seem to recall the prices on fillers, cloth etc. wasn't that great.

Haven't had a chance to order from these people, but I'll just throw it out there
http://www.shopmaninc.com/prices.html

I like 2:1 epoxy. Harder for me to screw up the measuring. Don't bother with the pumps anymore. I don't trust them and tend to lose count

I'll just dedicate one graduated mix cup for resin and one for hardener. Pour the contents of each into a disposable container.