120' schooner in Norfolk , Va. , just commissioned last week and is now somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay sailing.
120' schooner in Norfolk , Va. , just commissioned last week and is now somewhere on the Chesapeake Bay sailing.
ElBee,
The cracks around the turnbuckle base are cosmetic , just gelcoat, spyder cracks .
Looks like someone shortened the spreaders to me.
Squirt the turnbuckle with PB- Blaster , it will turn after a few minutes and 2 or 3 applications od Blaster .
Clean the interior of the boat with a white vinegar wipedown or spray it on, wont hurt anything but the mold. Next scrub with 'citrus orange' handcleaner the industrial stuff and wipe with fresh water , use no bleach, it's toxic to people and mold will grow back if it isn't neutralized with an acid, like vinegar, which also kills the mold on it's own.
When I got #45 it was so black inside (from mold) , it looked like it had been on fire.
A budget????
Hahahahahahahahahaha
You could try to make one (then double it)
Sure, the cost is painful. But, its the time that gets 'ya. Sooooo many hours.
Meanwhile everything and everybody is competing for those same hours.
Excruciating.
Any boat you look at is going to have problems. But is another boat gonna make your heart flutter?
Only a good sea boat is worth the investment, in my humble and cranky opinion.
Pete hit it right on the head, I tried to estimate my renovation costs and itemized everything out pretty well came up with about $5000. I've pretty much hit that mark and I'm only half way to where I wanted to be!!
It would be nice not to have to worry about the money and just do it, but if we all had that sentiment W.M. would be a few mil richer!!(and I would be holding a cardboard sign on the corner)
B.T.W. Looks like you need to figure in buying a cat to catch the giant rats!
Corecell is the way to go. I started cutting up my deck and I wouldn't
touch endgrain balsa in sheets ever after this one. There is a place in Upstate New York called Noah's they are also in Canada and they have an over abundance of it and they are having a major clearance sale. You need 3/8 and they come in 4x8 sheets runs roughly $500.00 but I think you can get it from them on the cheap because they overstocked it.
John I think it is Noah's.com but try Noah's marine supplies on google.
Thank's Sprite!
Noah's is indeed cheaper than anyone else I've found. I was going to go with Nidacore, but I see that I can get 3/8" Core-cell for $94/sheet from them which makes for less than $300 for a whole new deck core. Thanks again!
Tangentially, has anyone had an NEGATIVE experiences with Raka epoxy? The six-gallon kit with slow hardener is more than $100 cheaper than the West 4.89 (or whatever) gallon kit.
Fair winds,
Jeremy
Used a couple of gallons at one time, no problem. Haven't heard anything bad about them.
I seem to recall the prices on fillers, cloth etc. wasn't that great.
Haven't had a chance to order from these people, but I'll just throw it out there
http://www.shopmaninc.com/prices.html
I like 2:1 epoxy. Harder for me to screw up the measuring. Don't bother with the pumps anymore. I don't trust them and tend to lose count
I'll just dedicate one graduated mix cup for resin and one for hardener. Pour the contents of each into a disposable container.
revisiting epoxy
One more time from ole ebb.
You want 2 to 1 100% solids (NO SOLVENTS, LOW TOXICS, LOW SMELL) laminating epoxy with a SLOW hardner. Most systems have fast hardners at different proportions, but will result in a more brittle finished plastic. You ought to ask the supplier/vender if he can GUARANTEE no blush. NO BLUSH. You should never have blush problems in warm weather. High end, premium, marine epoxy should give you no problems down to 40 degrees.
I buy my stuff from TAP Plastics here on the west coast. Not cheap, but this is to say that using a cheap quart 'multimeasure' container (ml and oz) you get at the shop is by far the simplest and easiest way to measure quantities. I'm more forgetful than C'pete, so I use a sharpie to make three marks on the translucent container for the proportions. You can see what you pour, I pour out of gallon cans. Never had a failure (knock on plastic). And after a short while working with the quart container you'll be able to judge the amount you need. You can't get the same 'feel' with pumps. And they gum up.
Last edited by ebb; 06-23-2005 at 11:05 AM.
I get most of my epoxy from FGCI.com, 1:1 , 2:1, 3:1,5:1 and all the fillers, no one can touch their price for me. Never had any problems in over 12 years use.
$65 for 2 gallons of 1:1 !
Ebb, direct from the Raka website:
"All Raka Epoxies are 100 % solids with no evaporating solvents and have low viscosity for superb penetration and wetting out of wood and fiberglass."
If they're lying, let me know; I'm still a lawyer in New York State. (That was a joke.) They also have a blush-free hardener with a medium cure time of 30 mins at room temperature. This hardener adds around $30 to the price of a 6-gallon kit ($264 for regular; $298 for high-tess) . So you can either pay $30 for no blush or $30 for Scotch-brite pads. However, seeing as how I'll be doing this in another three weeks in the blazing mid-Atlantic, summer sun, the less time I have to scrub ANYTHING, the better.
Mike, I've definitely checked out FGCI.com, and yes, their prices are hard to beat. What their site is short on is I-N-F-O-R-M-A-T-I-O-N about their products. In fact, if you go to the FAQs page, there are no FAQs. Oversights like that make me very suspicious of a company's quality and attention to detail. Still, if you've not had any problems in 12 years of hard-core yard work, I'm far more willing to listen to a single testimonial like that than every piece of literature and scientific study published by OSHA or anyone else. And even a bonehead like me couldn't screw up a 1:1 mix, which is a very good thing.
Also guys, I am running under the impression that colloidal silica is the thickener of choice when rebedding the core. Please tell me that I got at least that right?
all 1:1 epoxy is non blush , it is the hardener in 5:1 that causes the blush.
FGCI has excellant tech support , a 800 # and humans to talk to on the other end.
They make a 1:1 pre thickened epoxy that is best for bedding cores , saves a lot of time and the thickening is just right every time .
Milled fiber is actually better than cabosil for a strength filler .
Jeremy,
Fumed Silica. Please check out
wwwepoxyproducts.com
for Paul's 'More than you ever wanted to know about fumed silica.') I just happen to use Aerosil because that's what my supplier carries.
The stuff is lighter than air! You must use a particle mask when mixing it into your epoxy bucket. You are creating a GEL with the stuff, and working on a horizontal surface your gel should be pretty loose.
Mike is the honcho here, so listen to him. Once you have a batch made and you are glueing in the foam and the stuff is too thick (we are talking about 2-part epoxy and silica only) you can mix the batch in the bucket very quickly with your mixing stick and that will loosen it up.n But IMCO will quicken exotherm.
As I attempted to say, I mix batches in a measured quart container. My mixing stick continuously scrapes the side of the container. Mix thoroly but not rapidly. Then pour nearly all of the liquid into a gallon bucket where the silica or whatever is added. Leaving a little in the smaller container you can use to loosen up the mix - which is easy to do if you're always improvising - like me, because yer lazy. Or brilliant.
I buy Aerosil in bulk, which turns out to be a ten pound bag. So I have to decant (under protest, it's a lousey job) from the bag into a plastic 8# Purina cat chow container. Again, it just worked out that way. It has a nice lid that snaps closed. So, anyway you can figure to control the stuff would be good. There is literally NO WAY to get small amounts out of the bag. You don't want to breathe it or have it floating around for anybody else to breathe it.
I guess we're doomed to using local suppliers or what you are used to for epoxy. You are right: you have to read their language, how open they are about their product, and what they don't say about it. If it's the salesman talking, forget it. I don't know RAKA, but you have to assume these people want your return business. West System has a troublesome product but because they talk well about methods they have a following. Once you get their pamphlets you can move on to more reliable products.
I've gotten good and bad advice from the guys at my local plastic store. But you can drag your concern around with the guys, what they've heard, and if lucky, what they've done. And get direction. The thing with epoxy, if it an't right you can grind it away.
Last edited by ebb; 06-23-2005 at 07:58 PM.
Hey, I agree, FGCI is rather anoying. It reminds me of the snooty attitude you get at the counter in some contractor supply places. You supposed to know what the bloody letters mean and what sizes stuff comes in - let alone seeing a picture in the catalog of what you might be getting. So if you want their prices you have to research somewhere else and then come back to the page. Compounding the strangeness, there doesn't seem to be any way to order except by phone. Shipping and handling is to be a surprise. Wait, wait, here it sez you have to become a member first.
[Closeup photo of some different colored foams in varying thickness]
KLEGECELL GS, sheet size 48"X32" (see our special pricing)
a closed-cell grid-scored PVC foam which provides stability and structural integrity in sandwich construction. It is made in 9 densities of which we supply the most requested medium densities R-60 and R-75, often used in recoring classic plastic boat decks.
[Check out our customer DIY pages for progression photos of a restoration and an estimate of materials needed.]
Yeah, right!
Watch it if you are going to order fiber. Milled fiber almost universally refers to milled glass, a heavy powder. Noticed that FGCI has flocked cotton in black or white. So you have to say cotton, or polyethelene, or kevlar, or carbon.
Say Mike, if my supplier has any milled cotton it comes in a jar. Anyway, I've never used the stuff. WHY is it any stronger than silica? And if you're looking for strength, why not milled glass? But if you're really looking to add strength to the gel why not mix in 1/4" chopped strand?
Flocked cotton.
Gotta admit, doesn't sound very Bushmills!
Last edited by ebb; 06-23-2005 at 09:38 PM.
FGCI is a very 'down home' kind of business, call them up and just ask for the catalogue saying you saw it in WoodenBoat mag and they will send you one free. A very informative document it is with lots of 'how to' in it.
Milled fiber is always cotton to me , at least that is what I always get when I order it . Glass powder is another thing you want to be careful with .
Say your epoxy was a 1000 gal batch, and you had the choice of thickening with 3x5 notepad paper or 1' long pieces of rope .
Which would be stronger?
The notepad paper would be harder as it absorbs the epoxy , but the rope will be stronger because it mats and meshes together to form a interlocked structure .
Anywhere you want to bond surfaces and one can absorb any epoxy mix , fiber is better because on a microscopic level the fibers are drawn into the material , such as wood or foam. With cabosil the epoxy is drawn in and the silica stays out weakening the epoxy ( starving the joint ).
Cabosil is an excellent product and makes a very hard , extremely hard epoxy.
What most people don't realize is, your epoxy additives are like spices , most of the time you need more than one in the soup .
Say you are mounting deck hardware with 1/4" screws , drill a 3/4" hole fill with cabosil epoxy mix then drill a 1/4" hole in the center of that . That is what silica is good at .
Laminating a new mast step , 1/2 cotton & half silica in a loose mix more like puddin then P-nut butter and dont over clamp and squeeze it all out .
Fixing dings , use Barney Dust ( micro spheres ) with a dash of cotton and silica ( silica sands very bad so you need a softer filler).
Ok now , for more secrets you'll have to buy my new DVD "Epoxy Tips" for 29.95 + S&H ( west coast add $100) allow 6 to 8 months for delivery.
Oh another thing corecell is supposed to have a better bond with epoxy and
insulation properties. So epoxy away
John
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