anchor bridle/bow eye snubber
OK just to throw another line into the mess, How about a 3 point snubber adding a line to the eye from this kind of snubber setup (pic lifted from a previous Ebb post) The line could provide the low pull with the security of the bridle to back it up.
http://www.bosunsupplies.com/images/Snubber.gif
persuit of a wholey Supreme roller
Craig, Thanks for 'experimenting' with us!
And, ah, trying to inject some knowledge into this subject.
There is no embarrassment in explaining a knot you think we ought to know.
When you think about it, how easy is it to explain in writing how to tie a cleat wrap? Problem is you have to assume too much about the experience level of your readers. Look what had to come about with Knots by Grog, for instance, where words are replaced with step by step stop-action pictures.
Walk down the floats in any marina and you'll see many cleats tied up wrong.
Many boats too.
Just saw in Sail magazine an aid for the sheet winch - which is a disk, I guess peel-and-stick, that you put around the base of the winch. It has big arrows printed on it to show of course which way to wrap the sheet.
Wouldn't think it necessary, right?
You know, and George, Ebb too, will still be wrapping the jib-sheet backwards anyway.
Could use a peel-n-stick arrow thingy to help tying off a cleat properly.
About using chainhooks, once had a large rather crude galvanized pelican hook on a pendant that you engaged the arm into a chain link, It had a ring keeper that held the pelican shut. You slipped the ring up to upset the hook and release the chain. Never got to use it, but it would be exciting to keep your fingers out of it. Can release chain under load with it, which you can't with a chainhook.
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MANSON SUPREME
It's great that Craig continues to be impressed with the anchor!
I went back to the Manson home site and found that they seem to have expanded and rewritten the section on the Supreme. I think the anchor has become popular primarily through word-of-mouth, since the original presentation on the site wasn't all that impressive. The West Marine/Yachting Monthly test helped a lot. And reading through the forums, so did the negative spin from the Rocna forum-infiltration and hype that seemed to bother a lot of people. Manson's managing director who emails and evidently reps the anchors at boat shows said that he carries only the Supreme on his personal cruiser.
Noticed the statement that the Supreme 'fits any standard roller' now seems to be gone, except that Azure Marine still copies the phrase.*
I mentioned once to the rep that there wasn't any off-the-shelf roller that would actually work with the Supreme - that is my presumption - and suggested they design and sell their own.
That's not going to happen - but Windline might alter their humongous bruce style anchor roller to receive the Supreme.
Kingston has twice the selection of Windline and might have one that works good. Haven't looked into it.
The thing is there is no need for the anchor roller unit to be made in stainless. It would be imco more appropriate and CHEAPER to be GALVANISED. Manson could make the rollers COMPANIONS to the galvanized Supremo's and made from the same super alloy! There you go.
Made a 1/4" plywood model for my 25# and discovered the roller has to be even lower than the BRMs to engaged the curve in the shank near the fluke.
[Believe the bruce style roller shown in the photo above ia a Windline BRM.
The URM's would really hump up the curved Supreme when pulled all the way up because of where the roller is placed.] In fact I ended up with the model having two smaller diameter rollers and a narrower channel. That means less metal weight. Also made the channel bump up on the inboard end for a couple clevis pin holes to hold the anchor for self launching. Then looked into off-the-shelf wheel rollers and ...then got involved in other stuff.
If nothing else I have a 3D picture to compare with catalog dimensions - to try to match with a ready-made.
Got the shank to sit horizontal, and the fluke relatively snug against the two rollers in the model. But there is too much metal out front on a Windline BRM (whose dimensions I used to begin with, almost enough to be its own anchor! Has to be scaled W A Y down!
("Don't need no stickun Supreme, I jes toss the roller in, works purdy goood!")
Dang, do I have to make my own roller......???:eek:
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* (google) Convert Anchor Roller for CQR - Page 2 - Sail Net Community
[no urls come up for me anymore!]
Second post by 'Maine Sail' has a quality photo of a Garhauer made roller on a Catalina. The guy sez his new Manson "fits fine" where he used to have a CQR. The anchor is perched precariously on one point with his chain under full tension in his roller. And I think under more tension than the weight of the Supreme.
He's joking of course - the photo illustrates what the problem is with normal roller-channels and that 'standard rollers' really can't work with a Supreme. A roller should imco house the Supreme in a more neutral position - but still 'self launching'.
Actually the Supreme can't help but be self-launching - no matter what.
all imco.
Supremo gets fitted for a custom roller
Just glued together a model of an anchor roller-channel.
It uses two $8 trailer 'bow rollers': some nice 3" wide by 3" diameter flat bottom V-groove amber orange polyurethane ones by Stoltz.
The model is not reproducible, it's to see if the idea is possible.
And also to see if any off the shelf rollers can be substituted.
This model is a more rounded sport version of some of those DarthVador Windline claw rollers. It fits the shank of the Supreme 25 like a glove. It is too wide for my liking but that is because the width of the channel has to be wide enough to fit the shackle (with its stupid lop-sided pin-eye) that connects the chain to the anchor.
[A Crosby 2 ton WLL 3/8" Alloy anchor shackle is less than 2 1/2" wide. Can see a narrower channel if narrow wheels were available off the shelf.]
The sides of the channel at the inboard end bump up and have holes to engage the shackle holes in the end of the Supreme.
Maybe rig a clevis pin to be yanked out for self launching. That's the idea.
Convenient to have two holes (one is the end of the slider option). The holes are vertical, one above the other in the model.
The anchor in the roller would not need to be tensioned with a chainhook, as it can be held with a clevis pin.
The shank of the 25# is only about 14.5" long before it begins to seriously curve toward the blade. The model has the shank of the Supreme lying LEVEL in the channel. On edge, but horizontal. The anchor looks like it oughter look in this attitude.
I don't think we want to see it humped up and uncomfortable on the bow of an Ariel or Commander, right?
If you mounted this roller over your bow, the anchor in this position can do nothing else but self-launch.
The first roller has the bearing part of the V-groove below the plane of the channel. Because the shank sweeps down suddenly from the straighter part of the shank.
[What imco you have to look for in a Windline or Kingston is that the roller groove is below the plane of the channel - not level or above.]
.
The second roller is below the first and further outboard. Its groove engages the turn of the shank also. This is the roller that will turn and orient the anchor into the channel when being hauled aboard.
The wheels are close to 3" diameter. So you can only place them so close together and that's it.
The lower wheel is just above the curve where the shank does a U-turn to meet the blade when the Supremo is housed.
With a clevis pin in one of the holes in the top of the anchor, the anchor will not be able to jump out of the channel. It will move very little except wobble side to side because of the channel width. Might be able to figure that out with orange poly props!
Now whether such a short roller has enough length to be mounted with enough overhang to keep the sharp pointy end of the hook from gouging the bow...we'll have to see.
I'll try a fit this weekend.:o
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Craig's choice of Wineline's BMR3 and BMR4 certainly look like they can do the job. I'd like to have one to actually see how it fits (instead of reinventing the wheel so to speak) The Manson Supreme's wide shank makes the bail difficult to permanently place on my model because it has to stick way out to not get in the way of hoisting the anchor, and turning the anchor, into the rollers.