Replacing Portholes

[Ken]

I need some input from those who have replaced the forward ports and the glass in the main cabin ports. My two forward portholes are broken, corroded and leaking. The glass on the four in the main cabin are scratched and I would like to know how to fix. Any ideas on where to buy replacements would be appreciated. Ariel #399 in Tampa Bay, Fl

[Bill]

The Association's manual has a section on port replacement and a llst of suppliers of original and replacement hardware. Although you may get away with using 1/4 inch glass, the actual thickness is closer to 5/8 inch.

For original ports contact Ronstand, RI, Inc. PO Box737, Chepachet, RI 02814 -- 401-949-4268

[Mike Goodwin]

Bill,

5/8 or 5/16 ?

[Bill]

Ops. Did I say 5/8? I meant to write 5/16 or 3/8. It must be the "senior moments . . . " :Ugh:

[Bill]

Yes, that's what I mean ;) I'm sure I said 3/16 . . .

[Terry in Bermuda]

I am about 3/4 through rebuilding Ariel # 385 here in Bermuda. All deck hardware had to be removed because of failed screws and bolts. I have refinished most of the unique Pearson hardware and replaced others. The boat did not have the original 4 main cabin portholes and I would like to make contact with anyone who might be able to direct me to a supplier of original portholes. I have contacted bowman but would still like to have original if possible.

Thanks
Terry in Bermuda

[Mike Goodwin]

If you want , you can contact ;

Rostand R.I. , INC
PO Box 737
Chepachet , R.I. 02814

They want over $880 for a set of 4 , in bronze , a bit pricey in my book , plus add shipping to the 'Onion Patch ' and you are over a grand .

Mike G

Please note -- New provider. See: http://www.pearsonariel.org/discussion/showthread.php?p=13247

[Terry in Bermuda]

To Mike Goodwin

Thanks for the contact.

Terry

[ebb]

Missed calling Rostand again today. Understand from a previous message on the machine that he is no longer going to offer finisht bronze ports and windows. He will still supply UNFINISHED right out of the mold castings. You grind the mold marks off, polish and buff, drill holes....a lot of time.
I'm going to find out if the $900 tab is for all six, all the bits and pieces, and the glass It is though a lot of separate pieces.....at a pretty high price.
Anybody else interested? Maybe we could drive the price down on a 'group order.'

[Mike Goodwin]

That $880 is just for the 4 big ones .
The 2 little ones are extra $$$.

[ebb]

HOLY CATFISH!!!

[Mike Goodwin]

I'm thinking about replacing the the picture windows with opening ports . I'd rather have the air here on ChesBay . I have 6 Beckson 5 x12 and it looks like they will fit 3 to a side where the non opening ports were . I'll go with a 4x10 where the opening ports were .
Rostand can keep those gold plated ports .

[ebb]

IMHMO,
wait a minute, isn't there a lot of appealing ariel identity in those cabin windows at stake here? Aren't` they Alberg's signature? I even find those blocky Beckson forward ports a bit off. Not wrong, it's just that the man's finesse is being erased.
I swear you will have that tall ghost of a bignosed ectomorphic swede to contend with. That corner-cutter everette might agree with you guys, he'd put Beckson below the waterline if it saved him a buck. The number is not auspicious also: Threee lights on a side, not four! It'll look like an offbrand. And squinty.
I'm putting some stuff together for bronze casting. Like I'm almost considering patterns that have two extra verticals inside each window (ala cast alum Bomar hatches) This effort would effectively keep me off the water another year.

Aside from ventilation, one solution I've seen is to thrubolt some dark lexan thru the cabin sides and trim them out to near the original specs. Inside you can finish the windows off in mahogany or teak. Some Ariels must have done this already.

[Mike Goodwin]

Those big non-opening ports loose their appeal on a hot August night on ChesBay .
Signature or what , I never liked them on the Pearsons , the Bristols , The Columbias , etc, etc. They are very 60's tech . Opening ports have a lot more appeal when the air is blowing thru .
I also find it easier to make an opening port stop leaking then those picture windows .
To me it is like replacing those crappy old slot topped winches with Lewmar self-tailers , just makes sense .

[ebb]

:Ugh:
It's like Mickey Mouse with square ears.:>

[Janice Collins]

I agree with ebb. I need to change the starboard v-birth opening port and I want the original design, shape, and size.. Looking at these forward ports as I'm swimming around her, they remind me of dolphin eyes. I couldn't imagine changing that look.

Now a question: The 2 large cabin non-opening ports---I caulked them years ago with no further leaking problems. But they are seriously crazed. Which I don't mind except I wonder if this makes them less strong???

[glissando]

I have to say that the large ports common to the Ariel, Triton, Vanguard, early Bristols, Albergs, etc. are probably not my favorite part of the designs.

HOWEVER, I do consider them to be a very important part of the boats' signature Alberg, 60's look that instantly indentifies our boats to an onlooker. While I'm sure that some nice big bronze semi-oval opening ports, similar to those used in Pacific Seacraft or similar boats, would look pretty nice in the raised portion of the cabin trunk in place of the huge fixed ones, it would undeniably change the look of the boat. There was an article in GOB some time back about a guy with an A30 who did this, and it looked nice. But it looked like a completely different boat, too.

That's OK, if it's what you want. But part of the classic value of the design would be lost, I think. If I were sailing around the world, I'd probably put those types of ports in first, though, for the stronger construction (and ventilation).

Since I mostly intend to be sailing coastwise, and perhaps eventually to the Bahamas or Caribbean, I think I will stick with my signature ports. I find plenty of ventilation when anchored through the forward hatch. I think that in places where the breeze doesn't flow through the forward hatch more opening ports would definitely have their value. It comes down to what's most important: looks or function. I don't think I'd be inclined to change out my large ports purely for ventilation purposes...that's a part of the boat's design that I accept for what it is up front, and deal with the consequences.

Personally, I wouldn't change out the forward, small ports either--mine are solid bronze and are appropriate for the boat. But I do understand why some feel it is desirable, and, given the silly prices for new period ports to replace deteriorated originals, I also understand that the financial considerations force use of some of the current plastic ones.

Our boats may have some classic design and value, but they're not museum pieces either. So, if it (whatever it is) works for you, great! Opinions are opinions, and one is not necessarily right and another wrong; they're just different.

Tim

[Dave]

I just want to say what a great discussion group this is! Thoughtful, experienced, helpful, courteous. Way to go, folks.
When I feel like I have gained enough experience from the cascading series of projects related to restoring 257, "Brigid", I'll chime in.
For what it's worth, I find the Ariel / Triton look -- including the portlights -- a never ending source of pleasure; a little like looking at the old Porches -- dated, but uniquely beautiful, and an incredibly refreshing change from the docks crammed with "me too" boats.
--Dave in Edmonds, WA

[Mike Goodwin]

Look familiar?
It's the Cape Dory 25D , also designed by Alberg , identical from the waterline down ( it has a fatter transom )
But look at those 3 opening ports designed by Alberg on the Ariel hullform , sure is a lot more comfortable and it doesn't make me want to hurl looking at it .

I'm not doing a restoration on #45 , it is a resurection .
If you want to be authentic to the boat , get rid of those 4 stroke outboards , they are not period to the design , also you EPIRBS , GPS , compact VHF radios , full batten mains , self tailing winches , roller furling/reefing headsails , etc. etc. etc.

[Mike Goodwin]

Think of it like a 49Mercury that has been chopped and channeled , a vast improvement over the stock Merc sedan .

[Janice Collins]

Yes, that Cape Dory is beautiful.

But if I were to change my ports to yours, why, I then basically changed my boat from an Ariel to a Cape Dory.

I guess the risk of extinction is a possibility for the Ariel, like all other things in the world. But there will always be groups around trying to prevent specific specie demise. And it sounds like there are a few for the Ariel. Which is a good thing!!

So, I hope there are a few still trying to do restorations, not just reconstructions. Not that reconstructing is a bad thing, just a different thing. And it is those differences that make the world go round. But how much prettier that world would be with an Ariel sailing on it......

Whether we are attempting reconstructions, true resurrections or restorations, we all agree on the beauty of her lines and her ability to sail so sweet!

:cool:

[Mike Goodwin]

The Ariel will outsail that Cape Dory anyday , it has and will again . I can't figure out the differance between the two , but #45 and the CD25 in the photo have raced many times with various owners and the Ariel always wins .( I have sailed both )

It will take a lot more than just changing the ports to make an Ariel a Cape Dory 25 , to start with;
Cabin is longer and single height , no lazzarette locker behind cockpit ,only one seat locker (port side ) no Vee berth and it has a big fat ugly transom .
As the old saying goes " ten pounds of S**T in a five pound bag " that is what they tried to do with the CD25 . The boat lacks the elegant simplicity of the Ariel , I suspect Alberg was doing it for the $$$ and just caved in to the accomodation requirements set forth by Cape Dory .

I much prefer the Ariel to the CD25 .

[Janice Collins]

I guess I shoudn't have been so loose in saying the ariel would be a cape dory if the ports were changed. All I really wanted to imply was that that defining look of the Ariel would be lost by placing small ports in place of the 4 large original ones.

Anyways, nobody knows if the crazing that is pervasive on my 4 large ports make them less strong???? Is that a reason alone to replace them. Otherwise, no leaks etc......

[Mike Goodwin]

The crazing in the plastic is a sign of its demise & should be replaced .

And as to the on going debate , I'm attracted to the Ariel hullform , not the coach house , as it's strongest design point . Particularly the graceful overhanging ends . The cabin to me is a necessary evil to be tolerated at best . I think the Commander has a far less obtrusive cabin design .I prefer flush decks , which do limit headroom , which some folks seem to be obsessed with . Everything I do below decks can be done sitting down or prone .

The attached photo is of a boat with a lovely cabin .

[Janice Collins]

The crazed plastic should be replaced because...... Does it pose a hazard? If so what?? Is it more prone to smashing up, caving in, blowing out...????

What causes this crazing, UV LIght?

[Mike Goodwin]

It is aged by the sunlight , the cracks are like tiny scores in glass , a sharp blow can cause it to go depending on how far gone it is . The plastic is basicly shrinking like drying mud , therefor the cracks . 30+ years is asking a lot from the old window material (40years this winter for #45) .Plastics get brittle with age . You should be able to replace all 4 windows for about $80 , just use the old as patterns , cut on a bandsaw and final shape with a rasp or sander to the line .

[ebb]

Also corrosive cleaners and solvents like petroleum products, almost anything with a high odor, will eat acrylic.
You might go to the Triton Maintenance site to read Jim Baldwin's (Atom 384) take on replacement. He's sailed his Triton twice around the world.
Basicly you stableize the space between the liner and the cabin with epoxy filler and fit the hole with somewhat thicker lexan bolting cxompletely thru the frames. Aluminum? I don't know. Tritons may have bronze. But if the aluminum isn't degraded I'd use them and isolate the bolts with goop. Or that stuff they've come up with for masts and ss fasteners?
Polycarbonate is 3Xs more expensive than acrylic, ten times stronger, comes in sun screen tints. It will age, UV degrade and corrode too - and scratch easier. But you'll take care of them better. And the man says he don't worry none no more.:D

[ebb]

Let me say that I have not done this procedure, ok? This be gossip not gospel. I will after much procrastination go with a version of Baldwin's. It depends how ALL of the frames come out and how they clean up.
You can easily cut window plastic on site with yer Bosch jigsaw following a suitable pencil line on the paper protecting the plastic.:cool:

[ebb]

Perhaps some interesting first timer advice.

204.220.138.252/newspics/charts/907windows.pdf

[Brent]

At the risk of inciting the anger of the "tall ghost of a bignosed ectomorphic swede", I have to say that #66 is going to be a reconstruction, not a restoration.

The aforementioned A30 is actually on the front cover of "Good Old Boat", and it has stirred my heart for several years now. In fact, when I was looking for a boat, I zeroed in on the Ariel, Triton, Vanguard, early Bristols, Albergs, etc., just so I could have a boat that looked like that A30!

IMHO, changing the portlights doesn't take from the Ariel's charm or unique lines, but adds to it. Most of today's clorox bottle boats have square or triangular fixed ports that lack the charm of an opening round or oval bronze port.

Brent

[Brent]

Ebb had it and I didn't even realize it

204.220.138.252/newspics/charts/907windows.pdf

"Magnolia" is the boat on the cover of "Good Old Boat".

[ebb]

What did the writer of the article say? ',,,those camper trailer windows'. He describes well his reasons for the change over, and I'm almost convinced.
I've only seen this on the moniter here and the picture they had of the result looked like a smudge. If you wanted to drive your point home you'ld have befor and after shots.
An interior after shot should have headed the story. You know: smug first mate and a couple mugs of tea, and the inner passage thru the ports.

So I'm not convinced the escape hatch captain nemo submarine queen mary first class cabin look is for me and #338. I think the change over would end up rather depressing. And claustrophobic.

[Brent]

Mike,

How were you planning on installing the newer, smaller portlights in the main cabin?

Without it, it would be easy enough to grind the fiberglass, cover the existing holes, etc..., but how would you do that with the fiberglass cabin liner in the way?

I'm considering the same change to the windows, but have realized that the cabin liner is going to be an issue with this project.

The alternative would be to proceed as Steve has suggested, and put an opening portlight in the bigger window.

Brent

[Mike Goodwin]

Ah grasshopper ,
Old FG worker trick . A smooth ,waxed & released panel is forced against liner from the inside . Gelcoat is applied from the other side ( thru window holes ) , then glass set in vinylester resin then core ( if needed ) then more glass , then a layer of glass and mat over the cabinside overlapping the old ports by a good margin . Fair and fill the outside , go inside and pull the board off and the surface should flow together nicely with a little sanding and buffing , then repaint the liner the flavor of the day !
Cut new window holes and it looks like it was made that way . Thats the beauty of fiberglass , the ugly is the itching !

[Janice Collins]

The frames of the original forward opening ports are what kind of metal?

[Bill]

Opening ports were aluminum, just as were the large frames.

[Brent]

So we treat the cabin and liner as one piece?

How do we fair the outside? I assumed that we would put the waxed panel on the outside and started the gelcoat from the inside. However, if I did that, how would I make the inside fair?

Please Master, help me out of this quandry :-(

[Brent]

Some time ago (days, weeks--not sure), I was driving by Green Pond here in Falmouth when I noticed a boat moored in the harbor. There are probably about 20-30 boats moored there, so it is unusual for a particular boat to catch one's eye, unless of course, there is some sort of recognition going on.

And there was, since this particular vessel had that distinctive raised cabin & those "camper trailer windows". I'm not sure if it is an Ariel, a Bristol, etc.; I'm going to try to catch a picture of it (the last time I drove by, it was not there). It is, however, definitely an Alberg design.

Later, I saw the same boat out in Vineyard Sound, leaning over under main & jib. Again, it was easily identifiable because of the raised cabin & those "camper trailer windows".

The aluminum frames on #66 are in poor shape. One is cracked; another broken. I'll have to replace them. After pricing out some nice bronze opening ports, I've decided it would probably be more cost-effective (and less work) to go with the Rostand frames with tinted acrylic or lexan. For better ventilation, I'm looking into the previously presented idea of using a smaller, 4x10 black-framed plastic portlight bedded within one or more of the larger windows.

But aside from the cost, I have to admit that my discovery of an Alberg design in my backyard (and Janice's & Ebb's comments) has helped to convince me that changing the "signature" of the Ariel may not be such a good thing after all, since I discovered this particular vessel because of that distinctive look.

So, #66 will be keeping those "camper trailer windows" and I'll find another way to ventilate the cabin.

Ebb, I'm all for trying to get a bulk purchase discount on those frames. Anyone else?

[ebb]

Hello Brent, I'm usually surfing the wave here of what's current, so I don't know how far back the infothread goes on Rostand. My understanding is that he is getting out of the marine (window/port) side of his business. Mike said he wanted $800 plus for the frames,ie bronze, unfinished. Meaning you'd have to do the polishing, I suppose the drilling and tapping of the machine screw holes, and the chroming if you were going to do that.

$800 is outrageous. Plus the attitude I surmise here. I'd have confidence in an outfit that was eager to provide a decent product at a decent price and wasn't castrating part or all of his business. I'm thinking you could take the best of each of the pairs (4 pieces) to a bronze foundry to see what they would charge. I haven't done it because the aluminum is curved and I just don't want to mess with them. And my frames aren't all that decrepid. I met a guy who is setup to weld aluminum and understands the material, I'm taking them to him for filling of extra fastening holes that DFOs put in and advice on pitting, maybe it can be filled or polished out.

Talked with an aluminum anodizer who said by far the best coating for aluminum is powder coating. Which comes in every color. So when I get to it, the process will be to clean and repair the frames, take them to the P.C. who will beadblast and etch and bake on a bronzecolor coating. And that will be after I drill matching holes thru corresponding inside/outside frames so the holes are coated against the fasteners I'll be using I still have to fuss to see if the Jim Baldwin Method will work on 338.
The curve of the cabin side to be considered viz the light which must be polycarbonate imho. hope some of these >opinions< help with your decision

PS Spartan (another eccentric company - you have to send for their catalog - not on the net) has a reasonable facsimile of the nice rounded opening ports in bronze, I ordered about a month ago and haven't received "because they have to be assembled." They don't come in chrome. They cost. but if they work right and drain ok imho the bucks are probably worth it.

[Brent]

Ebb,

Good advice. I especially like the idea of powder coating the existing frames. I am curious about the costs you uncovered for this.

I am already in need of an aluminum welder (there is a good-sized crack in my masthead casting), so going the extra mile and having the window frames mended & coated might be a better idea than forking out the $800. If it lasts and it looks like bronze, that is good enough for me

:)

Do you have the address/phone for the folks at PS Spartan?

[Bill]

An inexpensive alternative to the bronze or aluminum frame is to use plastic GO Windows. They come complete with the "glass" installed. (Ariels 111 and 143 have used them. See pp. 66 - 69 in the manual.)

Mark Plastics, the window producer, has the window design on file. As I recall, they were about $120 each. There was a newlsetter article about the Go Windows and the Triton Web site published details. They may still be there someplace.

Mark Plastics - Go Windows
369 East Harrison Street, Unit G
Corona, CA 91719
(909) 735-7705

[ebb]

www.robinhoodyachts.com (reallytooweird)
1/800/325-3287 or 207/371-2542

A phone call will get you a catalog. It's all traditional stuff. They build a 40' Alberg cutter (looks like it even has a bit of a bowsprit and a clubfooted staysail - probably has a hotub too) for the steak & scotch boys that I would love to have a ride on. Or inherit.

[Brent]

Here's the Alberg that caught my eye. Looks like an A30, but I may be mistaken. In any case, she sticks out in the anchorage; virtually every other boat is white-hulled, either sailboats with a taller rig, higher freeboard and/or a boxy cabin with tiny portlights, or motorboats.

[Brent]

Here's another shot...

[glissando]

That appears to be a Rhodes Ranger--a 29 footer that came out shortly after the Triton. As the name implies, it's a Phillip Rhodes design...note the trademark sheerline.

Click this link to see a photo of another Ranger.


http://nimbus.temple.edu/~bstavis/ranger.jpg

Tim

[Mike Goodwin]

Tim,
I think yooz zackly right , isza Ranger .

BTW, I have a photo of a local Triton coming for you too . Can't locate the owner , yet .

My question is , why the windows ?
it's like a '59 Caddy , everybody sees the fins , when we all know it's the tail lights on a 59 that really make it a classic .

Too many boats have those same windows , enough to confuse folks on this list about what they are looking at and they all weren't designed by Alberg . So maybe that is not 'his ' signature , it is Pearson's , Bristol's , Rangers , Columbia's et al.

They are to boating , what the wide whitewall tires of the 50's were to cars .
Or maybe it's like a zit on the end of somebody's nose , you can't help but notice it.

Or maybe ......it's your boat and you can do with it whatever you want .
I was thinking about a bow decoration like was on the 'Flying Tigers' of WWII , big ole snarly shark's mouth . Or maybe flames along the waterline , that would be 'period' correct like on a California custom from 'Big Daddy' Roth's shop .
Why are all our boats painted so sedately ? Mine is because my wife was going to kill me if I did any of the above , which I had considered BTW .
Some of the boats in the Volvo Round the World Race had some cool paint jobs , why don't we ?
Or how about a 'Dazzle '( camo ) paint job from WWII .
Or something simple like red on the port side and green on starboard , it's been done , used to race against a J-24 painted that way . It really did confuse the race committee a bit .

Come on folks , wake up and get noticed and not just for some big ole non functioning ports .
Thank goodness Hunter never used big ugly ports , I might have to hurt someone if they called my boat a Hunter !

I feel much better now , carry on .

Mike G

[Brent]

Actually, I was thinking about a pair of eyes on either side of the bow. The ancient Greeks (Phoenicians? Egyptians?) added them to guide the boat through danger to safety.

I might be able to get away with that, but if I tried anything else, my wife would, too, kill me :D

Besides, I guess I am a bit biased toward the traditional, that is, after all, why I chose the Ariel in the first place ;)

Bill, I did see the bit on the Go Windows in the manual, but I'd rather not go the plastic route. Cheap to be sure, but not the look I am after.

Steve, Whose catalog did that page come from? I've been looking at Defender, West Marine, Sailnet, etc., but haven't seen that layout. All of the above give part #'s, prices & specs for the white/clear, but only note that black/smoke is available, and don't offer the same details.

[glissando]

Mike,

I have to agree with what you said...that the large ports are more a trademark of the era, rather than the designer. As with all "looks", large ports in a raised doghouse were simply how boats looked back then. That trend began long before Pearson started building sailboats.

Today, boats all have smoked black narrow windows--it's the current "look": the "Celebrate Plastic" look. Barf-o-Rama.

Perhaps I and others were incorrect to call the large ports in our boats an Alberg "signature"...you are right: they are more a signature of the builder. If one looks closely, Bristol, Alberg 30s, and Pearsons, while sharing very similar looks, all have slight differences in the large port design. Close, but not identical. It seems to be a builder thing. Frankly, I doubt that Alberg even had a hand in the specific design of the port shapes, beyond a general concept.

And look how long Pearson carried those basic ports forward even after Bill Shaw began drawing the boats-- Renegade, Coaster, Wanderer...boats that should never be confused with an Alberg design. (but, sadly, are...maybe because of the port design! :eek: ) I think I just proved your point, Mike!

If my large port frames weren't nice bronze, I probably would have felt it less important to keep them. Fortunately, they are bronze, and that makes 'em pretty cool.

And when I sail down south I'll probably be *****ing about the lack of ventilation, too!

Whatever anyone replaces the large ports with, just stick with something metal and classy.

Tim

[ebb]

didn't all those guys get their start in Alden's office. They all drank martinis after work, smoked Camels, and played shuffleboard together. Maybe the era was just a bunch of nerds interacting in the local bar. What do you do with a two hump coach roof and a sweet sheer?
Does anyone really believe that Rectangular Acrylic Ports is the answer for the salon? Or round manholes. Maybe if you chopp and channel the salon for a nice sleek line and the headroom of a Commander. Hell it's your boat, screww it up! That's what I'm doing to mine! But I hoisted a few with Carlos first. Yes I did.

* ** *
Got those opening ports from Spartan. Next to the prim and proper bittie aluminium ones these look like they came off a LIBERTY SHIP. The glass at the most is one square inch larger, but the bronze ones are absolutely huuumoungous! 4 1/2 pounds compared to ounces (the aluminum ones don't register on the bathroom scale.)

The Spartan's have a spigot you could mount in your living room wall. Well, in your front door. So most of that will be cut off. Come out a pound lighter at least. Great for the ultimate storm.
Maybe they'll mellow. They are a fine yellow. The finish is smooth right on ballsy, but if you want it to shine you have to pay $100 per each more. Chrome, you're outa luck. More description on the piece? ask me.

:D

[Janice Collins]

I've emailed Rostand R.I. concerning a quote for a replacement for the v-berth opening port. I hope I can get that prim and proper bittie aluminum one.

When I'm swimming around Wayward Star, admiring her for all she's worth, and look up at this area, I always comment how pretty she looks and see / feel her life in those dophin like eyes. Its the color , shape and size of the port that gives this particular effect.

And as far as ventilation, I quess again I'm lucky because MOST of the time there is a breeze with the hatches open there is a great cross breeze, In more protected areas, a wind scoop worked for us, but I can count on my hands the number of times we used it all those years living aboard. A small fan was used more often . And when we were anchored in the Hurricane Holes, hiding from the likes of Tropical Storms and Hurricanes, well nothing could keep you cool then. That is what I am sure Hell feels like.

Wayward Star is either anchored or moored, not in a slip, so maybe its cooler for me for that reason.

[ebb]

awwww...

[Mike Goodwin]

You old square eyed devil !
Didn't take a picture , but the chill checker was hovering between 95 & 100 with 4 fans ,an awning and all ports & hatches open .
It dont look nuthin like a Hunter , there is shape to the shear .

[commanderpete]

Here is my Dad and I passing a big ugly Hunter.

I love doing that.

[Mike Goodwin]

And passing to leeward of him no less , 'how imbarasskin'as Popeye would mumble .

BTW ,
'ugly hunter' is redundant .

[glissando]

Congratulations on passing him...

But the real question is: did you have any bathing beauties on the deck like those that seem to be strewn about the Hunter?

Now the REAL reason you sailed so close becomes apparent!:)

Tim

[commanderpete]

Hey! This thread is about portholes, not port hoes.

Besides, this is what they call a bathing beauty up in Maine

[commanderpete]

OK, here's one for you old married guys.

Badda bing, badda Boom

[commanderpete]

I better not go there, or someone will report this post to a moderator.

[Brent]

Thus far, my every attempt at saving those %&*@!!# "camper-trailer windows" has failed.

It would appear that the stainless steel screws have welded to the aluminum frames. I have tried WD40 as well as a penetrating oil (forget the name, but the folks at Home Depot thought more hightly of it than WD40) several times, but none of the screws will budge.

I've tried manual screwdrivers, as well as a bit in my cordless--I actually broke the bit trying :(

For the hell of it, I tried drilling out one of the screws, but my bit (a nice, new, shiny Craftsman in the chuck of an 18v cordless) barely made a dent.

How can I get these things off in one piece? Suggestions?

[Bill]

Lay the boat on its side and soak the fasteners with Liquid Wrench . .:p

Heat works, sometimes. I was able to salvage some of the original frames when the screw heads twisted off. Might be a way to go.

When all esle fails, asks the people at the yacht yard or machine shop for suggestions.

[ebb]

Got my interior frames off. Could have been in better condition than yours given some of the pics you have on this board. This may be redundant but for fun:

Go to OSH or Sears and get the largest screw-driver that fits the screw head. It must be tight in the groove and bottom out and span the whole head of the fastening. It must be brand new. I found one with milling or serration on the blade for antislip. Brand new!

Now, face the window - insert the driver blade exactly square holding it in your fist about nose heighth exactly perpendicular with your arm against your chest. Lean in hard take a deep beath while you put the slowest turning or twisting pressure on the driver handle with your whole body. It's like slow motion.

You kind of feel the flesh moving over the bones in your hand. With steady pressure and not wavering the screwdriver AT ALL you will turn the screw out of the opposite frame. It's only in there about an eighth of an inch anyway. No magic potions needed....and only 35 more to go!:D

[noeta-112]

Ebb,

Very descriptive:cool:

....annnd ... don't forget the 35 more NEW screwdrivers!!!:D

[ebb]

You know, if you beer drinkers switched to ale you might get it unscrewed more often.

[Mike Goodwin]

And if you switch to Porters and Stouts , you just wouldn't care . Try a Barley Wine if you dare .

[commanderpete]

I only buy this stuff because I like the label

http://www.samadams.com/beer/images/summer_ale-label.gif

[Mike Goodwin]

Nice label , excellant beverage !

[Brent]

Ebb,

It just so happened that I had a very large screwdriver, much like what you describe (except missing the grip on the tip), so I sprayed some screws a third time with the penetrating oil, gave the whole frame a whack with a hammer to try to loosen it up, and...

I was able to move one screw about half-a-turn. I will try Sears to see if I can get something with the grip, but I am also going to pick up a drill bit that will handle stainless. I've just about given up on these things.


Russ (Noeta, #112) had mentioned in another thread last month that there were some bronze window frames for sale in NH (see the Classified & Off Topic section for more details). I made the call and picked up four today; I'll post pictures of them tomorrow. Given the trouble these existing frames are giving me, I would be better off putting real portlights in than trying to save 'em.